What? Are these people high?
The current whine is that you should stop blaming the player, but blame the model/rules instead.
Wow.
I'll come right out and say that as a Trollbloods player, I suck. I've said it a lot and I'll keep saying it until I figure out how to play my army. I know it's not the models, I never blame my models. It's my inability to get things to interact at the right time due to not knowing the army or botching order of operations. I know what I want to do, I just haven't played them enough. As long as I learn something from every game I play, I'm happy.
I don't agree 100% with the rules for any of my factions, but I can work within them. I don't blame Privateer when I lose a game -- "OMG they hatez my army and they borked it so I cant winz." That's complete and utter bull crap. If you can't figure out a rule or a special ability or how a model works, it's you, the player, not the company!
All of the factions have a learning curve. For some of us, it's a little steeper with Trolls. It took me 10-12 months to fully grasp what my Cygnar can do, but then, I was also learning the rules. Protectorate took less time, mostly because I was used to getting my face punched in with them and knew some of the tricks. With Trolls, I'm learning Hordes for the first time. I know it's going to take time. I guess that's the difference with me and a lot of the other dorks -- I understand there's no easy button, and success will come over time. I'm patient, I'm OK with this. I think of it as lulling my players to sleep... they'll be sorry when I get good with the Trolls. ;)
I enjoy the TB models, the flavor and the story. I'm not going to come out and say everything is perfect and nothing needs to change. But I'm also not going to come out and say it's all worthless because I'm not very good with the army. Maybe Trolls aren't my style, maybe Hordes isn't my style. But I'm not going to throw in the towel after playing the army for less than 4 months. That's unfair to me as a consumer, and unfair to the Bright Pinks, who will be fully painted by May. :)
Look, I'm a total n00b at Warmachine and I haven't the faintest clue when it comes to Hordes but it sounds like some folks on the forum just need to nut up or step out.
ReplyDeletePrivateer Press has been successful so far because they have made a relatively well balanced game (near as I can tell. I am a n00b after all.) I mean, isn't the point to pick a faction and learn how to win with that faction or did I miss something?
I think the other part of the high pitched whine is that more players (?) are focusing on what they didn't get vs. what they have. Like the game is some kind of entitlement issue, and that Privateer Press should bend to each players whim. It doesn't work in the Iron Kingdoms, and it certainly doesn't work in the real world.
ReplyDeleteWhen we first started playing we didn't complain about what we didn't have, we adapted and made what we had work. I don't think much has changed for me in the last 4 years, except that I have a lot more models to choose from, if not a few more factions.
OMG my armee is soooo n00b! I cant winz! (snicker!)
ReplyDeleteI will second that it is the player that needs to learn, it is not the model. I play Circle, I prefer hordes mechanics over warmachine. Metamorphosis comes out and I flip through the pages. All of the new release stuff looks good because I know what to do with it and how to use it....still want the shadowhorn.....but I flip to my warlocks, and I am stumped. Epic Kaya took me a little bit of work and with some patience from my opponents Epic Kaya has become one of my most successful warlocks, I love her style. So I know I have to work on Epic Kruegar and Mohsar. I look at them and don't like em, am not thrilled by them, but it is me, so i will buy them(well maybe not epic Kruegar) and will use them until I no longer lose with them. I will whine that I don't know how to use them or what to use to work with them, but notice the I bit, not Privateer Press, I.
ReplyDelete@Itchy: You are 100% corrected. It's not like you pick up the models and learn by osmosis. Or maybe *I'm* doing it wrong...
ReplyDelete@Scott: I think our local meta has a much different approach than other gaming groups. We definitely focus on how to work with something rather than bemoan what we don't have. Really, the only things I felt my army needed was a way for Long Gunners and Sword Knights to be fearless. And really, that wasn't a huge gaping hole in my army.
@Airport: OMFGWTFBBQ k thx bai. ;)
@Kater: It's been fun to watch you develop with Circle. They're not quite as automatic as your Cryx, but you're getting there in a hurry. I'm not looking forward to facing eKruger or Mohsar.
@Kater: I read Moshar and really like what I think I can do with him. I already have a good start on a Circle/ Baldur army now, but Moshar really appeals to me. My learning curve will be pretty steep going from Warmachine to Hordes, but I am pretty sure I can figure it out.
ReplyDeleteI need to play Amon until I 'get' how to play him right, but my frustration level is a little too high right now. Krueger and eKrueger I am not that excited about, but I will probably pick them up along the way.
"My learning curve will be pretty steep going from Warmachine to Hordes, but I am pretty sure I can figure it out."
ReplyDeleteThat one line from brotherscott pretty sums up my feeling on the matter.
Take what you have available, learn it, love it, and eventually begin to win with it. Honestly, what fun would there be if every faction was exactly the same in the way it played but with different models?
Sure, some factions have some obvious advantages but I'm pretty sure those advantages can be overcome by just about any other faction if you put enough effort into it. How many times have you heard that the Protectorate is the weakest faction, model for model, in Warmachine? That would probably be true if you played the game with only one model at a time but you don't. It is about building synergy. How many blogs do you see where someone is "playtesting" a list? Those people are figuring out how to win with what they have available. That is the appeal of the game.
Sorry. I'll get off my soap box now but as a new player to Warmachine, reading the naysayers' posts makes it hard for me to love the learning process. I am definitely here to stay but other new players may just say 'eff it' and move on.
@Itchy: Preach it! You've got the right idea heading into the game. And IMHO, if you've got an "easy button" things get dull in a hurry. Why bother playing if you're at the top the moment you start?
ReplyDeleteAnd really, I don't think I've heard anyone locally talk about how Protectorate is weak. Talk about bang for your buck... sheesh. Zealots and the MB? Deliverers? I tend to play with the higher-point cost stuff like Exemplars, but weak? No. I don't see it.
I'd avoid the naysayers; that's why I very rarely venture into the Mk II forums -- when I do go, it's only if someone's mentioned something in the PG area that might be worth checking out. I have a very positive attitude about WM/H and I'll be damned if I'm going to let some anonymous intarwebnet dork bring me down.
I'm a intarwebnet dork, and I love my trolls.
ReplyDeleteI may have just started but I have more wins then losses, I have a ton of fun (cept that one game against legion, where my DTM died on turn 2...) and generally don't just get lucky to win.
With every model I look at in the Troll line I see synergy left and right, each thing seems to work well with any other unit/beast. Regardless of what you pair together in trolls you'll find out, that if you play efficiently, you'll win.
Trolls aren't about 1 round assassination runs, or ignoring rules of any sort. Trolls are about getting your army into their army then executing the oh so famous "Axe to Face" tactic. It doesn't get much more complex then that, and trying to make it more complex will lead you into a big mess.
I've seen you play, and while you have a load more experience then me, so this may be worth nothing. I think you have the general game plan down with trolls. As you implied, Trolls are about playing the patience game, not the applied force game.
The Bright Pinks call it "Axe to Mouf", baby!
ReplyDeleteAnd I do like the straightforwardness of Trolls. I just need to learn how to play *Trolls* -- not Trolls like Cygnar, or Trolls like Protectorate. Near as I can tell, I run them like the bastard love child of Cygnar and Menoth. It sorta works, but not really. ;)
Thanks for reading.